Home > Theology and Eschatology > Where is America in Bible Prophecy?

Where is America in Bible Prophecy?


By Walid Shoebat – “For many years, it has been taught that in the Last-Days literally every nation of the earth – including the United States – will be utterly dominated by the Antichrist; there will be no place to escape from the dreaded Mark of the Beast; every last nation of the world will come against Jerusalem. Zechariah 12 is usually used to validate the theory, as is the Apostle John. After all, the Antichrist will be given ‘authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation,’ (Revelation 13:7).

This would seem like an ironclad case for the Antichrist ruling the globe, including the United States, which he uses in his march against Jerusalem. It is this dilemma that caused many to believe that the United States will be taken over by Antichrist.

Before we attempt to solve this issue, it is necessary to clarify the dilemma. For this, we can ask a Jesus-style question: does the usage of the phrase, ‘the whole earth’ and ‘every tribe, tongue and nation’ in the Bible mean ‘the entire globe’? If so, then did Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4:1 send his letter to every nation, tribe and tongue in the ‘entire globe’?

‘Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.’ (Daniel 4:1)

‘O king, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar sovereignty and greatness and glory and splendor. Because of the high position he gave him, all the peoples and nations and men of every language dreaded and feared him,’ (Daniel 5:18, 19).

How about…

‘Men of all nations came to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, sent by all the kings of the world, who had heard of his wisdom,’ (I Kings 4:34)

Did anyone visit Solomon from China?

How about…

‘Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt,’ (2 Kings 17:29).

Did the inhabitants of every last nation of the earth have Samaritan gods in their homes?

How about…

‘the kings of Assyria have laid waste all the nations, and their countries.’ Isaiah 37:18

Did King Sennacherib of Assyria actually destroy all nations on the face of the earth?

How about…

‘As I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth,’ (Daniel 8:5).

Did Alexander the Great occupy the whole earth?

So then, let us offer a new perspective regarding the end-times verses:

Zechariah 14:2 ‘For I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem for battle’

Matthew 25:32 ‘I will also gather all nations’

Joel 3:2 ‘I will gather all nations’

Such verses should not be isolated. In context, Zechariah 12 only encompasses the surrounding nations:

‘I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves,’ (Zechariah 12:2-3).

In Joel 3:12 we find the same:

‘Let the nations be wakened, and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations.’

‘The surrounding peoples’ and ‘all the nations of the earth’ are two references pertaining to the same people; ‘all the nations’ and ‘the earth’ is not the entire globe, though the translation may seem to allude to it as such. The problem is that the translation at times makes it difficult since – in English – ‘the earth’ tends to mean ‘the entire globe’ and in Hebrew the word ‘Eretz’ commonly means ‘the land’ and not ‘the entire globe.’

Then we have the culture. In ancient Hebrew, we find a grammatical construct that makes emphatic statements in order to convey a point, whereas using hyperbole is extremely common in eastern cultures. Elaborating on the exceptions would entirely blunt the impact of the statement. For instance, imagine a speed limit sign that listed the exceptions painted on it, ‘speed limit 55—except ambulances, fire trucks, police giving chase, etc.’ Thus, exceptions cannot be ruled out on the basis of exclusive language. This type of language is actually found quite frequently in the Bible. Throughout the prophecies of end-times the Bible is speaking of a regional war and not global (Ezekiel 36:4, 5, Psalm 79:12, Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 28-32).

One common argument I always get is an objection that ‘the earth’ is meant to be ‘the known world,’ that today’s ‘known world’ must then encompass the entire globe. This assumption is false since all ‘Four Beasts’ in Daniel chapter 7 arise out of ‘the Great Sea’ (Daniel 7:2). ‘The Great Sea’ is the Mediterranean region, not the entire globe. That with all the literal nations of end-times encompasses only the Middle East and Asia Minor. If the first beast (Babylon), second beast (Medo-Persia) and third beast (Greece) all were out within the ‘Great Sea’ (Mediterranean) then the fourth beast of Daniel 7 could only pertain to the Mediterranean Sea as well.

To make the Antichrist rule a global one, many western interpreters today allegorize ‘The Great Sea’ as ‘the sea of humanity.’ In so doing, we lose the meaning and the intent of the prophecy. This reference to ‘The Great Sea’ cannot be an allegory pertaining to the ‘sea of humanity’ since every verse in the Bible refers to ‘The Great Sea’ as the Mediterranean Sea (see Num 34:6-7, Jos 1:4, Jos 9:1, Jos 15:12, Jos 15:47, Jos 23:4, Ezek 47:10, 15, 19, 20, Ezek 48: 28).

The Bible makes every effort to clarify that the nations surrounding Israel are the ones to which it is referring:

‘And render unto our neighbors sevenfold into their bosom their reproach, wherewith they have reproached thee, O Lord,’ (Psalm 79:12).

Do Israel’s ‘neighbors’ include The United States? No. This is confirmed in many places in the Bible:

‘Thus Says Jehovah against all mine evil neighbors that touch the inheritance which I have caused my people Israel to inherit,’ (Jeremiah 12:14). The neighbors are all Muslim.

In the Bible, Antichrist ‘will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it’ (Daniel 7: 23), yet several prophecies state that Antichrist will be confronted and will not take over the globe (Daniel 11:40-45, Daniel 11:30, Ezekiel 28:7-8).

So where is the United States in the Bible? How many ever think about this, that perhaps in the end, the United States is mentioned fighting against the Antichrist. Daniel 11 tells us that Antichrist ‘acts against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory’ (Daniel 11:39).

Who are these ‘strongest fortresses’ [the strongest military might]’? How could the Antichrist rule the entire globe if we have strongest fortresses that fight against him? Does he truly defeat these strongest fortresses? Does he defeat the United States? Does he rule the entire globe?

The answer to this is ‘No.’

Why then do so many modern Western prophecy analysts insist that Antichrist hold the most powerful military might in the world? Which nations hold the strongest military might? Is it not the United States?

The text regarding end-times is clearly portraying what we see in Islam today. Even when we read that he declares war ‘against the strongest fortresses.’ What could that mean except what it plainly says—to declare war against the most powerful nations on earth? Jihadists already declared war on Europe and the U.S. And now with the Arab Spring clearly becoming an Islamic storm, we see that what we have said to you years ago in advance; everything is happening in accordance to a plan.

However, the West today seems oblivious to this fact. Who else could be as maniacal as Muslim fundamentalists to declare war on the powerful West? Who else is deceiving the West with false peace saying that ‘Islam is a peaceful religion’? And it is all for the purpose of advancing their god, Allah.

This is exactly what we see today.

The position that every nation will fall to Antichrist is impossible since the Bible clearly states that some will even resist the Antichrist and even defeat him. The verses are rarely discussed. In Ezekiel 28, it even confirms that the most powerful nations (strongest fortresses) on earth will annihilate the Antichrist:

‘Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of [them that are] slain in the midst of the seas.’ (Ezekiel 28:7-8)

‘They’ pertains to these powerful nations and the term ‘terrible’ implies to being ‘terrible in battle,’ ‘most powerful,’ ‘strongest fortresses.’ God will rise up several nations who will carry out His judgment and attack the Antichrist in the end. Therefore, it cannot be true that every nation of the globe will fall to the Antichrist and attack Israel. There have always been attempts to establish a One-World Government, yet they have never succeeded; far too many in the West fail to remember that God divided the nations after the Tower of Babel to never allow them to be one; even in the Millennium we will still have nations separated. This promise is as the rainbow for Noah.

Too many today read the Bible narcissistically. Many books have been written that place the West at the center of prophecy and interpret history through a Western-centric lens. Far too many Westerners have missed the obvious fact that the Bible is thoroughly Middle Eastern. In the Biblical worldview, Jerusalem is the center of the earth, not Europe or America. The biblical prophecies about the End-Times are no different.

End-Times Today is a complete study of Bible Prophecy that will ensure a proper perspective on end-times.” Source – Walid Shoebat.

Related: The Mark of the Beast – What Your Church May Not Be Telling You – “… The Babylonian Empire encompassed areas of Saudi Arabia (the birthplace and spiritual homestead of Islam) to the south, to parts of Asia Minor (Turkey) in the north, and from Egypt in the west to Persia (Iran) in the east. This area is today the epicenter of Islam. Additionally, one intriguing aspect to the ‘curse’ [of Zechariah 5:3] that goes out over the whole land is that the word for ‘curse’, and even how it is pronounced, is the Hebrew word ‘alah’. The Prophet Isaiah, in describing the condition of the earth at the time leading up to the Second Coming of Messiah, says that ‘the curse [alah] has devoured the earth, And those who dwell in it are desolate’ (Isa 24:6). To dwell in the earth does not in and of itself make one ‘desolate’. But the same cannot be said for those who dwell in the ‘curse.’” Read more.

  1. FX's avatar
    FX
    04/26/2012 at 12:07 PM

    Bonjour ICA !

    That’s a pretty big window, isn’t it?! I’m 82 years old, do you think I’ll see it in my lifetime?!

    ; – )

    I’m only kiddin’! I’m 42! If we’re not part of the martyrs, I guess you’re absolutely right: during a Jubilee in our lifetime!!

    Yom Kippur? Why not the Feast of Trumpet?

    Blessings,

    FX

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  2. ICA's avatar
    ICA
    04/26/2012 at 12:29 PM

    Jack Smith, “The 6th seal is when the text first mentions the “wrath of God” being poured out (Rev 6:12-17; 17). The dominion of the world will not occur until the wrath of God is poured out. This means to me that America is not under the dominion of Allah until at least the 6th seal.”

    Hi Jack, I almost missed your reply. The 6th Seal is post-tribulational only, and it is when we find the “orge” wrath of God that we are promised deliverance from per one of my posts above. If Antichrist does not have dominion over the whole literal world by the time the 6th Seal is opened, he will never have dominion over the world at all because the next event that takes place is the immediate return of Jesus Christ, which brings about the end of Antichrist (2 Thess 2:8).

    We know that the 6th Seal of Revelation 6 is post-trib because of the specific parallels that are made with Matthew 24 and Revelation 6-7 (and each are in the exact same order — I’ll show this in a moment). There are also some specific signs at this time that are post-tribulational only:

    1. Revelation 6:12-13 has the sun becoming “black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth”. Jesus tells us that this only happens immediately after the tribulation in Matthew 24:29, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven…”

    2. Revelation 6:14 tells us that the “the sky was rolled up like a scroll and taken away”, which Isaiah 34:1-4 places at Armageddon: “Come near, you nations… For the indignation of the LORD [is] against all nations, And [His] fury against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to the slaughter … All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine …”

    3. Revelation 6:14 also has the islands and mountains being moved, “… And all of the mountains and all of the islands disappeared.” This is the same event that is found after the Seventh Bowl in Revelation 16:20, “And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.”

    The book of Revelation is not strictly chronological or linear. John begins Revelation 6 with the seals, providing a general overview of tribulation from beginning to end and immediately after the tribulation (I do not believe that tribulation is confined to “7 years”, but is rather a description of nearly 2000 years of persecution against Christendom). John then does a “rewind” to focus his “camera” in on the judgments that take place during and immediately after great tribulation (called “trumpets”), and then does another “rewind” once more to describe the end-result effect of each one of the seven judgments (called “vials” or “bowls”). The seventh seal, seventh trumpet and seventh bowl all end together right around the same time in the eschaton. The manner in which John wrote Revelation is indicative of a Semitic writing style (we also find something similar in the Genesis account regarding creation, which is why some skeptics claim that there are two different creation accounts when in fact there is only one).

    Having said that, let’s do a quick rewind ourselves and look at all of the parallels between Matthew 24 and Revelation 6-7. This should help to solidify the post-trib placement of specific events (as well as the placement of the 144,000 and the “great multitude” which no one could number). Here are six parallels in Matthew 24 and Revelation 6-7 (I’ll also pay particularly close attention to the details surrounding the sixth parallel itself):

    Parallel 1:

    * Matthew 24:5 — Many will come in Christ’s name and deceive many.
    * Revelation 6:2 — The 1st Seal – White horse and rider with bow who is given a crown; went out conquering and to conquer. (We know that Christ is God, the Prince of Peace, and although Mohammed and his followers acknowledged Jesus as the Messiah and claimed to be following the true faith of God — which they call the “religion of peace” — his teachings also deny Christ’s divinity and deny the Triunity of One God while claiming to be the final prophet of God).

    Parallel 2:

    * Matthew 24:6-7 — Wars, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom.
    * Revelation 6:3-4 — The 2nd Seal – Red horse to take peace from the earth.

    Parallel 3:

    * Matthew 24:7 — Famines and earthquakes.
    * Revelation 6:5-6 — The 3rd Seal – Black horse bringing famine.

    Parallel 4:

    * Matthew 24:15 — The Anti-Christ and the Abomination of Desolation.
    * Revelation 6:7-8 — The 4th Seal – Pale (Green) horse with Death and Hell. Green is the official color of Islam. He has power over 1/4 of the earth to kill by sword, famine, death and “wild beasts”.

    Parallel 5:

    * Matthew 24:9-13, 15-22 — Great Tribulation. Many are delivered up to be afflicted and killed. Many fall away from the faith.
    * Revelation 6:9-11 — The 5th Seal – Saints in heaven are told that fellow servants are to be killed.

    Now notice the 6th Parallel. I’ll include some verses and break it down into individual parts:

    Parallel 6a:

    * Matthew 24:29, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken”

    This corresponds with:

    * Revelation 6:12-13, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood, And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth …”

    Parallel 6b:

    * Matthew 24:30, “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

    This corresponds with:

    * Revelation 6:15-17, “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains, And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

    Parallel 6c:

    * Matthew 24:31, “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

    This corresponds with:

    * Revelation 7:1-4,9,14 “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God … Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel … After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands … these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation.”

    In Revelation 7 “And after these things I saw …” is a continuation of the post-trib signs that John witnessed at the 6th Seal a few verses earlier (the text is inspired but chapter and verse divisions were added later by men). After John sees the post-trib cosmic signs he then witnesses the gathering of the elect — the 144,000 and then the great multitude that the angel says in Rev 7:14 “are the ones who come out of the great tribulation”. In order to come out of the great tribulation, they had to be in it. (Also see the article called “The 144,000 and the Great Multitude – It’s Not What You May Think” for more thoughts in this regard).

    If America is not under the dominion of Allah and Islam at the time of the 6th Seal, it never will be, for this is the time immediately after the tribulation when Christ returns in power and great glory to deliver His people. “Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust, From the terror of the LORD And the glory of His majesty. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, And the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the LORD of hosts [Shall come] upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up–And it shall be brought low …” (Isaiah 2:10-12).

    Jack Smith, “Until then, I concur with your view — America is opposing the dominion of the Antichrist empire until just before the return of Christ.”

    Maybe our views are getting closer together! ;)

    God bless brother …

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  3. FX's avatar
    FX
    04/26/2012 at 1:32 PM

    Amazing parallels. Irrefutable. Thanks ICA! Very enlightening.

    The whole Bible is constructed with chiasms and parallels, with passages shading lights on others. When we start reading and studying the Bible thematically, is when lots of its mysteries unfold. There is a great book out there called: “The Literary structure of the Old Testament, a Commentary on Genesis-Malachi”? by Docteur David A. DORSEY. It deals with chiastic structures! You may be interested to check it in.

    Blessings,

    Fx

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  4. Willard's avatar
    Willard
    04/26/2012 at 2:21 PM

    FX – I am 64 and I definitely expect to see Christ in my life time if I live out a normal life as per my family history – I am not setting any firm dates it is a guesstimate – but we are specifically instructed TO BE ON GUARD and to WATCH – I am expecting it right at or around ICA’s exact thoughts with the Tetrad or four Blood Red moons coming in 2014 to 2015 – the last time was during the reclaiming of Temple Mount and the time before when Israel became a nation.

    From Rosh Hashanah to Yom Kippur is 10 days – think ten days of AWE – there are many signs pointing to 2015 – but God may have other plans God is still in control and he also is sovereign – his plans may simply be to bring the world to attention so that the world begins re-focusing on him.

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  5. james's avatar
    james
    04/26/2012 at 10:27 PM

    I don’t know where to post this so here it goes: I have just written a brief review of Mark Davidson’s book “Hidden In Plain Sight” on Amazon.com. He has agreed to join the discussions on Midnight Watcher!

    Not Hidden Anymore

    “Hidden In Plain Sight” is a refreshing new look at End Times Biblical Prophecy focusing on the sequence of events leading up to the Great Tribulation.

    Author Mark Davidson has written an easy to read book for the layman: This is not a technical “Ivory Tower” treatise.

    His premise is that once the end times biblical model is understood to be squarely centered in the Middle East, the once “hidden” is revealed!

    What is revealed is that the religion of Islam is in fact the end times religious/political/military ideology that ushers in the Anti-Christ!

    Davidson reviews key prophetic scriptures, primarily in the Old Testament book of Daniel:in particular chapters 7 and 8.

    In these chapters, the Prophet Daniel foretells a sequence of attacks and counterattacks by Islamic nations upon each other: Shia vs. Sunni. These series of wars have significant repercussions in realigning and ultimately uniting the Middle Eastern Moslem nations under the leadership of the Islamic Mahdi (the biblical AntiChrist).

    Author Mark Davidson ties these events of Daniel with the Four Horseman of the Apocalypse in the New Testament book of Revelation Chapter 6 which gives the reader plenty of food for thought.

    Well I’ve said enough. You must buy this book! Its reasonably priced and will give you an entirely new perspective on the times in which we live leading up the time of “Jacob’s trouble”(The Great Tribulation) prophesied repeatedly by the Jewish Prophets and our Lord Jesus Christ.

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  6. FX's avatar
    FX
    04/26/2012 at 11:54 PM

    Bonjour James

    in your estimation: how serious is the moslem problem in france?

    Pretty BIG, I’d say!

    Of course the media do not make it so, but the reality is pretty bad with hundreds of cities literally in the ends of Muslims. French Law is no longer enforced there anymore, and the police get attacked when they go to these places (sometime with war weapons).

    how long do you think it will take for them to take over your country and europe as a whole?

    Hard to say, really. Will Abba allow it to take place? It’s possible, knowing that French and Europe as a whole really deserve to be chastised by His rod.

    The way I understand things is the following: when the antichrist unites 10 nations in the Middle East and takes over Jerusalem, this is when the worldwide Ummah will call for global Jihad. The great tribulation will start and its global repercussions will directly be subjected to the percentage of Muslims you have in a given country. For sure, the future of Europe does not look bright! We may have up to 20% of Muslims in French (if you take into account the second and third generation of Muslims. Officially they are French…but in fact French Muslims!) and these people, when given the opportunity are determined to kill infidels to advance the call of Islam.

    If you look at our past, French are cowards. They surrendered to the Nazi, and will definitely surrender to a violent “minority” of armed and determined Muslims. If you add to that the fact that it is illegal in France to own weapons, you can easily predict the end result!

    How long will it take to France to surrender to its Muslim population, I cannot tell. All I can say is that it is a more than highly plausible scenario for the future.

    I do not think the US will suffer too much of the Great tribulation compared to Europe. First you have a small percentage of Muslims, then you are allowed to own weapons and you have the courage to retaliate when you are attacked!

    Sure even a small percentage of Muslim can cause a lot of damage, but when they see that you guys are not going to stay sited on your seat and surrender, they’ll think twice. I surely don’t see Muslims taking over the US! Far from that!

    Having said all that, this is just one opinion of a French believer…I may be wrong!

    by the way everyone i made contact today with marc davidson the author of “Hidden In Plain Sight” a study of pretribulational events, and took it upon myself :) to invite him to participate on this blog! so hopefully we will see him posting soon:

    I’ve started reading it. Very interesting so far!

    Grace, mercy and peace!

    FX

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  7. Garyt's avatar
    Garyt
    04/27/2012 at 2:06 PM

    It truly amazes me the a war time book written by John after the desolation of Jerusalem by the Romans and about 20 years after the eruption of a volcano, could be used as some sort of last days prophetic book every time some Christian culture believes it’s the last days.

    John wrote this book as a diatribe against the Roman empire to encourage Christians who were being persecuted. The anti-Christ portrayed in the book is Nero. Every historian of any credibility knows what the symbols in the book mean as did the early Christians. Unfortunately, since evangelicals are literalists and don’t study church history, they have no idea what these books meant in their time, or are they willing to study this out. Much better to believe in man made doctrine that tickles their ears.

    John was not about to be forthcoming that it was Rome he was referring to when Christians were being murdered for the faith. The notion that it has anything to do with these times as a last days prophecy is a fantasy made up by the same people who believe in a pre-trib rapture which no other christian church believes in except american christians.

    You do not find the early church fathers mentioning any such thing. The doctrine itself only goes back to about the 1840’s in one of John Darby’s groups. I believe these interpretations of John’s book have only served to make many Christians complacent and egotistical in their faith and lacking any responsibility for caretaking our planet or others. IMO, the calvinism of this country has led to a materialism, a love of wealth and lack of concern for others that rivals that of the Jewish priesthood and pharisees of Jesus’ day.

    Our faith is to be lived out in love in community and on a one to one basis to others. What is God’s will will come down regardless of our self-seeking attempts to change others to our way of thinking out of fear. In this respect, we are no different than the muslims who wish their faith to be dominent. We want to believe we will escape tribulation because we accepted Jesus as Lord. The reality is how much have we really surrendered to Him when the American church is so fearful of change and acting on that fear in selfish, self seeking ways.

    Jesus created the church as an inclusive entity, not as an exclusive one. He accepted those who no one else wanted, and said things about the rich who oppress the poor, a wealthy priesthood, and literalists of his day that brought about his death. Would he do any different now?

    Forget all the last days stuff and cling to Christ. To do so will bring about acceptance of what is to be, and place us in Him to be a servant to all, and his healing hands to others when the you know what hits the fan.

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  8. ICA's avatar
    ICA
    04/27/2012 at 2:29 PM

    GaryT, “The notion that it has anything to do with these times as a last days prophecy is a fantasy made up by the same people who believe in a pre-trib rapture which no other christian church believes in except american christians.”

    Hi GaryT, thank you for your reply. In case you didn’t notice, this is not a pre-trib blog and there are very few pre-trib brothers and sisters who post here. Most comments are from those who hold a non-pre-trib position. Also, Nero was an antichrist, but not the Antichrist of Revelation, which has nothing to do with Rome. Preterism is another debate, for another day.

    Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, John was ambiguous enough that “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” could have been applied to the persecution of the Church under Nero, but was also specific enough that we now know that this was not the Beast that he was writing of. To understand why, I’d like to recommend the following article for your consideration: The Mark of the Beast – What Your Church May Not Be Telling You. God bless …

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  9. James's avatar
    James
    04/27/2012 at 8:15 PM

    I in turn am amazed that so many professing Christians:

    Do not preach the Gospel to their fellow man, and yet claim to “love” him.

    Do not know that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah.

    Do not know that Israel i.e. the Jewish people have a divine right to the promised land to the exclusion of others for example: the Arab/Moslem people who wish to destroy Israel.

    Believe that the Gentile Church has replaced Israel, thereby assigning the blessings of God to themselves and assigning the curse of God to the Jews.

    Brethren, theological liberalism is alive and well in our day! (No surprise) and we must be on guard against it.

    I think the litmus test of Christian orthodoxy for our day is very simple:

    Are you with Israel or are you with the Terrorists (Mohammedens)

    I just read that President Obama released $192 million dollars to aid the Palestinians!

    The short answer to where America is in Bible prophecy:

    Facing severe judgement for aiding Israel’s enemies. It will probably to some degree face the same judgement that the Anti-Semitic Mohammedan nations will get, perhaps worse for turning its back on so much Biblical light.

    God takes His Covenants with mankind seriously: the Abrahamic Covenant pertains to Jewish/Gentile relations: both Individually and Nationally.

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    • C. J. Refsland's avatar
      iamnotashamedofthegospelofchrist
      04/27/2012 at 11:42 PM

      AMEN!

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  10. Jay Ross's avatar
    Jay Ross
    05/02/2012 at 8:12 AM

    Hello

    It seems strange to me that there was little evidence provided in the article that supported that America is mentioned in the Holy Bible. The article seemed to focus on an obscure discussion about “all of the earth” and what this means.

    For me I can identify the King of the North as described in Jeremiah 50-51 as the king of a great nation that goes up against the land of the Chaldeans during the time that the descendants of Israel seek to return to the land of their forefathers so as to enter into a covenant with their God. That King is the President of the USA.

    If we are astute, we will recognise that Daniel 2:40-45 provides tells of the same timeframe as Jeremiah 50-51 does with Jeremiah 50-51 being written some ten or so years later than Daniel 2.

    I will not use the phase, “Line upon line, precept upon precept” to justify the above relationship as Isaiah 28 tells us that this practice is an abomination and adhorant to the Lord. Where I see people us that phase as justification for their scholarship, I begin to question the validity of their scholarship.

    It also seemed strange to me that no timeline of events was presented to justify the rational of the written text with respect to when the events where being considered.

    It also was strange that no time reference as to when Daniel 9:27 was provided .

    Both Daniel 2:40-45 and Jeremiah 50-51 are continuing their unfolding storyline as I write and if we look at the Daniel 2, it is clear that the fourth segment of the statue is Iraq and that the fifth segment, the ten toes, is represented by the Coalition of the willing which invaded Iraq in 2003. Jeremiah 50-51 provides a little more detail of the “war” aspect of the Daniel 2:40-45 prophecy. The rock in Daniel 2 is still a future event which IMHO will unfold sometime after 2040 which lines up within reason, with the timeframe presented in Matt 24:32. However, Jesus in Luke 14:31-32, suggest to us that He will be seen a far off by Israel and that shortly afterwards they will repent and accept His terms of peace.

    We can also perceive that the events of Daniel 7:9-14take place around this time and that Daniel 7:23-28 will follow some 1,000 plus years later into the future. Revelation 20:7-10 confirms this view. Gog and Magog are nations at the edge of the world to the north of Israel with one of them being ruled by the King of the North at that time.

    A number of time elemental keys need to be understood to come to this understanding with the “rapture” happening after this battle and Daniel 9:27 being instrument in the armies of the world coming up against Mt Zion after a 1,000 years of peace in that land to do battle with God.

    Shalom

    Jay

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  11. Mike's avatar
    Mike
    09/14/2012 at 5:22 PM

    Hello gents. Well, I’ve read through this very long exchange, and I would like to commend both ICA and Jack Smith in particular for their insight, civility and genuine Spirit of love and fellowship. Right now there is much going on in the world, with Islam raising its banner over embassies once occupied by the US, among other notable developments.

    I don’t have time to comment on the exchange, except to say that there is a strong argument for an anti-Christ with an Islamic origin, though there are details that are sometimes divergent. I will join you in watching, preparing, studying and hopefully doing the word. I will remain agnostic on some aspects, but will be comparing several different views as time and events continue to unfold. Thanks for your scholarship, time and love for the Lord

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  12. 09/12/2013 at 8:43 PM

    PRETRIB RAPTURE STEALTH !

    Many evangelicals believe that Christ will “rapture” them to heaven years before the second coming and (most importantly) well BEFORE Antichrist and his “tribulation.” But Acts 2:34, 35 reveal that Jesus is at the Father’s right hand in heaven until He leaves to destroy His earthly foes at the second coming. And Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven with the Father “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. (“The Rapture Question,” by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn’t dare to even list, in its scripture index, the above verses! They were also too hot for John Darby – the so-called “father of dispensationalism” – to list in the scripture index in his “Letters”!)
    Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The “rest” for “all them that believe” is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who’d be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of trib “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which Scofield views as Israel’s posttrib resurrection!) It’s amazing that the Olivet Discourse contains the “great commission” for the church but not even a hint of a pretrib rapture for the church!
    Many don’t know that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this “rapture” was stretched forward and turned into an idolized separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which evangelical scholars overwhelmingly rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” [“gathering”] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Google “Walvoord Melts Ice” for more on this, and also Google “Pretrib Rapture Pride.”
    Other Google articles on the 183-year-old pretrib rapture view include “X-Raying Margaret,” “Margaret Macdonald’s Rapture Chart,” “Pretrib Rapture’s Missing Lines,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “The Unoriginal John Darby,” “Catholics Did NOT Invent the Rapture,” “The Real Manuel Lacunza,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty,” “Famous Rapture Watchers,” and “Morgan Edwards’ Rapture View” – most by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (the most accurate and documented book on pretrib rapture history which is obtainable by calling 800.643.4645).
    PS – For some final shocks Google “The Background Obama Can’t Cover Up.”

    [Hello, MWB. What you see above is a thing I ran into while on the web. Lord bless.]

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  13. Unknown's avatar
    Anonymous
    08/02/2014 at 9:19 AM

    My question is if nations will bring down the antichrist than what to do with the scripture He (Jesus) will destroy him with the brightness off his coming?

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  14. Damilare's avatar
    Damilare
    06/01/2016 at 8:07 AM

    I think we are all forgetting something here. The abomination that causes desolation is the key point in the end time prophecy

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